Balance costs

3 votes

Costs of some items need a look at.

Ones I can think of right off:
- Shrubs cost the same as levees
- Dams cost more than levees (despite hole) and even 1 tier floodgates (floodgate require planks, but it's still 15 logs in raw resources compared to 20).

There may be more I've missed.

Under consideration Gameplay Suggested by: FuryoftheStars (30 Sep, '21) • Upvoted: 27 Mar, '23 • Comments: 10

Comments: 10

01 Oct, '21
Gin Fuyou Admin
Shrubs can give an early bonus, so it appears well-balanced to me. Same goes for levees, it's not very logical, but looks to me pretty reasonable gameplay-wise.
01 Oct, '21
Tetrygon
Power can definitely use a rebalancing. I think the water wheel is too good and too cheap to be unlocked from the start. It should require planks at least, maybe gears.
01 Oct, '21
FuryoftheStars
@Gin,
> Shrubs can give an early bonus, so it appears well-balanced to me.
Well, that's a different balance concern. They are easy to unlock, though there are other things the player may be more concerned about early on, but I also feel they are a little too powerful. All of the Aesthetics items, actually. A couple shrubs around your lodging and that stat is set, especially if you use stacking to your advantage. May be good to give them a vertical limit, and decrease the rate in which they increase the aesthetics stat significantly so you have to spread them out around more. To go with this, it may be good to allow them under platforms (at least 2 high? Unless the model is shrunk enough to better fit under a single), but then for the concern about "well, how is the plant supposed to get light to grow", make it so you then have to leave at least 1 side open around it. This then allows for putting shrubs along the outside edges of platform setups.
01 Oct, '21
FuryoftheStars
(Character limit... lol)
> Same goes for levees
I'm not sure I agree here? They are cheaper than dams and floodgates (adjustable dam). My concern there was that dams are more expense than levees or the 1 tier floodgate. Yes, levees and floodgates are locked by default, but that's merely a time gate.

Dams should be cheaper than levees. Yes, they're unlocked from the start, but they don't allow complete water blockage, either. I'm actually finding it better (in some circumstances) to research levees then build levees and let stuff flood if that so happens than to spend the extra early game resources on dams. (I'm also not a proponent of balancing material build cost with time to unlock in mind cause in the end, unlock time is just that: time. Once unlocked, it's the same as anything else.)
02 Oct, '21
Gin Fuyou Admin
> but they don't allow complete water blockage, either
Well, what you want usually first of all is incomplete water blocking, so it doesn't overflow and don't stop water wheel. That makes dam a universal and more valuable construction at the early game. But it's compensated by higher building cost. Rushing researching levees at game start when you need them - looks like very fine gameplay balance to me. Not really seeing your point here (I agree in some other cases balance is messed up, but those look fine to me)
03 Oct, '21
Thaina Yu
Dams cost more than levees because it require the same structural integrity as levee even it has a hole in it. Levee is just simple box. Dam is more complicate. I think it sensible both in real life and in game balance

I even think that it shouldn't even be researched
06 Oct, '21
FuryoftheStars
> Not really seeing your point here
My point is that for early game, dams are too expensive. And later, it makes no sense having better items (levee and 1 tier floodgate) that cost *less* than a dam. The fact that some are locked behind research should not be used to balance the _build_ costs of items. If anything, research cost can be balanced based on the build cost, but shouldn't be the other way around. I've never played a game where a more advanced item is cheaper than it's predecessor because of its unlock costs.
06 Oct, '21
FuryoftheStars
> Dams cost more than levees because it require the same structural integrity as levee even it has a hole in it. Levee is just simple box. Dam is more complicate.
You can't tell me that a dam, which physically is less volume, consumes *8* additional logs over a levee for being more "complicated". I can see the argument that a dam, allowing water to pass at 0.65, is essentially a 0.65 height levee (7.8 logs), plus a little for the more intricate shape (so let's round to 9? Heck, I'll give you 10). It then has a platform on top. Even if we assume 2 logs per side face of a levee (which would mean it's hollow, even though that doesn't make sense integrity wise), or use 4 logs to match the 4 planks of an actual platform, we're still looking at 12-14 logs.

And what about tier 1 floodgates? They're more "complicated" than dams, can completely block off water flow (1.0 x levee), yet are only *15* total logs (10 logs + 5 planks). They're a *much* more complicated levee than dams are.
11 Aug, '22
L
I suppose Floodgates are cheaper than Dams because they lack the ability to travel above them :P Extra railings on top need wood :)
Tbf if you build a path above the floodgates it becomes more expensive.
I do agree that the Dam should cost less comparing with a Levee though, reducing it for 12~18 logs would make sense (<=18, 12+6 extrapolating a levee and platform costs)

I honestly thought you'd bring other items that have more influence in the game.
27 Mar, '23
Marie
despite everybody is divided on the subject I think that dams should coast less than leeve or the same but not more